Mike Studer (MS) Hello everyone
Mike Toniolo (MT) Hi
MS Hi. Today I’m visiting Mike from tbfarming, and we have a few questions for him. First question: How and when was tbfarming founded?
MT Well, first of all, in 2014 we started a purely pharmaceutical project with cannabis. Then in 2015, we received inquiries from Lidl and other supermarket chains. In Switzerland, regarding CBD flower production, the product is referred to as a "tobacco substitute," which in my view is a poorly chosen term. But that’s how it is. I would rather have called it a THC substitute than a tobacco substitute, but yes, Swiss tobacco regulations require tobacco taxes for anything that can be smoked, even if it’s not tobacco. Hence, it’s called a tobacco substitute. Due to that inquiry, we created tb farming. “tb” stands for The Botanicals, and we produced flowers for supermarket chains.
MS That was 2014.
MT We founded the company in 2016. The inquiry came in 2015, and in 2014 we had founded the pharmaceutical company, which of course cannot sell tobacco substitutes. Therefore, we had to set up two companies: one for the recreational market (the smoking market) and one for the pharmaceutical market.
MS Okay. And what was the original vision behind tb, and how did it develop over time? What was the intention?
MT With tb, we launched a cosmetics line. With tb, we secured the flowers for the supermarket. We produced chewing gum and brought it to the German market via Rossmann and DM. We supplied products to lifestyle markets and did product development with tb as well. We have always been pioneers in the European CBD market. Then, when the regulations in Switzerland changed to allow research on THC-containing medicinal flowers, we immediately applied for a research license and were the first company in Switzerland to receive a medical cultivation license.
MS That was exactly my question – for that you need a new license that allows the cultivation of THC-containing flowers and not just CBD as a tobacco substitute.
MT In 2019 I sold the pharmaceutical company I had founded in 2014, and with tb farming, we decided: Okay, now the Swiss population is also ready to understand the difference between the recreational market and the medicinal market. Since 2019, it’s also acceptable for one company to serve both markets.
MS So, recreational market means for adult use only.
MT Yes, for leisure consumption.
MS In the USA, it’s from 21 years old, and here in Switzerland from 18. What distinguishes tb farming from other cannabis producers in Switzerland?
MT There are a ton of producers for our 9 million inhabitants in Switzerland. In 2017, we had over 1,200 cultivation companies. Of those, 1,000 went bankrupt, for many reasons. But the main reason, or what makes us unique or better than others, is that we have documented every single step of our work. We have continuously improved every single step. Since 2014, because of the pharmaceutical project, we have been working under GACP (Good Agricultural and Collection Practice), which of course requires everything to be documented. I’m not just talking about humidity, temperature, and CO2 measurements—every single step is documented, reviewed with a two-person check system, etc. We also keep reference samples, do lab analyses, take soil samples, and so much more.
MS Do you do all these analyses in-house? For example, do you handle the microbiology tests yourself?
MT No, we do in-house cannabinoid measurements, and soil samples are done by an external lab. We then also have our cannabinoid analytics checked by an external lab.
MS Do you use any special or sustainable cultivation methods?
MT Yes, I can proudly say that we are the only company worldwide that harvests 13 times per year in each flower room. Three years ago, we developed a system in response to a tripling of our electricity bill, which hit us hard. We had two choices: either find a way to cover these high electricity costs or stop the whole thing. So we got very inventive, and now we have a unique selling point worldwide that no one else has replicated so far.
MS Okay. I’ve witnessed that myself. It’s amazing. This leads to the next question: How do you optimize energy consumption, especially considering these high costs?
MT Well, a minor optimization would be switching from HPS (High-Pressure Sodium) to LED lights. The acquisition costs for LEDs were not worth it by my calculations, but now LED prices have dropped, and Switzerland subsidizes the switch from HPS to LED. Now it makes sense to think about it.
MS Okay, that would have been my next question: whether it makes sense to go in the LED direction and weigh if it’s really beneficial.
MT I think the most sustainable aspect of our operation is the location. We chose our production site carefully. We ensured we had enough electricity supply and room for expansion. We get our electricity from a hydroelectric power plant just a few meters away.
MS So a very short supply route. And ecologically produced electricity.
MT Yes, really ecological electricity.
MS Electricity produced from water.
MT Yes, not like solar panels or wind energy, which also have a "grey energy" factor in their production. With hydropower, we are well set.
MS And due to the short distance, it makes total sense. I’ve also heard something about district heating, that buildings are heated with your surplus heat.
MT We have a woodchip heating system in our building, which even burns wet woodchips. They are delivered from the local forest in the area. This heating energy is then supplied to two neighboring school buildings and a nearby residential complex plus a retirement home. And of course, we can use this heating energy in our own building as well. That’s why we chose this building.
MS Makes perfect sense. Coming back to the core business: Are there specific strains that you cultivate, certain genetics or directions you follow?
MT Do you mean in the past or the future?
MS First the current situation and then the outlook for the future.
MT We have been able to sign cooperation agreements with larger cannabis brands. They have breeders who regularly release new strains. What we want to do now is not highlight individual clones or strains, but rather bring the brands into the professional medical market. For example, we have a cooperation agreement with Barney’s Farm. With Sensi Seeds, we founded a company together. And of course, the big U.S. super brands are interested in entering the market through us. That’s what’s currently happening.
MS We might come back to that in a later conversation. How do you ensure consistently high quality? It’s really high, and how can you maintain that level over time?
MT This can only be done through standardized processes. If you change a process, it takes about a year in the cannabis world until it’s smoothly implemented. We managed to standardize our processes seven years ago, and now we only make minor deviations which we also standardize. That’s how you ensure consistent products.
MS And you also rely on the right genetics with mother plants. That leads to the next question: What steps are needed overall to get to the final product?
MT Good question. Cannabis is a living organism. It adapts to its environment, to the gardener, to the infrastructure. If you constantly change lighting, humidity, CO2 levels, watering intervals, or have different gardeners, you will never achieve consistency.
MS I can only agree.
MT And, for example, we do not grow from seed, because seeds are still not standardized. I’m talking about super genetics, which are all phenotypes. To maintain a standardized process, we need mother plants. The mother plant gives clones—an exact copy of itself—and we work with these cuttings. Once they are rooted, they go into the vegetative stage, then the flowering stage, and then they are harvested. It’s always the same procedure for us.
MS So as I understand it, the key is to minimize deviations in recurring phases or steps, including watering.
MT Yes. Never change a running system.
MS That’s absolutely crucial. How do you respond to increasing quality demands in the market?
MT I welcome that very much. I also come from the illegal market. I’ve been involved with cannabis for 29 years. That means I’ve also been active in the illegal world. Although one must know that THC cannabis cultivation was not illegal in Switzerland until 2012. Therefore, Switzerland has a long history. Many genetics that are now hyped in America originally came from here in Switzerland, for instance from Ticino, then exported to the Netherlands, refined there, and then exchanged again with American genetics. To return to your question: in the black market, there were no quality criteria, no standards, no oversight. A lot of unpleasant things happened: fertilizer with heavy metals, moldy flowers, pesticide contamination, improperly cured flowers. That’s all improved now because in the legal world, you have to deliver quality to attract customers. I find that very important. And now we look at analytics—how much heavy metal, how many pesticides, or none at all, microbiological contamination, etc. I welcome that. Also, it’s about the appearance of the flowers. If cannabis is produced very dark green, nobody wants it because it’s not considered quality. To bring out the aroma more, you have to reduce fertilizer and follow certain cultivation steps to refine the product before harvest. Then the most important steps are the drying process and the curing afterward. Only then should a product hit the market.
MS Right, including refining. That was the problem in the black market: no quality assurance and no regular customers, so they had to accept whatever was available because there was no alternative.
MT An illegal customer probably never complains.
MS And there are hardly any bad online reviews. Just kidding. More seriously, how do you see the cannabis market developing in the next 3 to 5 years?
MT The market is now being polarized by regulatory changes. There are certain hypes you should recognize that are happening now. Due to regulatory changes, a lot of competition will enter the market, and it will be a bit of a battle. But it has positive aspects, such as reintegrating cannabis into society on a normal level.
MS Exactly, the stigma should disappear, and the plant should finally get the place in society it deserves—long overdue. That brings me to the next question: What challenges does the current legislation present?
MT We want to specialize even further.
MS Regarding the current legislation in Switzerland?
MT If you had asked about European countries… As I said, there’s no EU-wide law for cannabis. I welcome Switzerland’s approach to research first—on recreational consumption and production. These research data will help structure the eventual legalization properly, so it doesn’t become nonsensical. If I look at how some countries have liberalized and then consider the rules, I have to say they did it all wrong or only halfway, or didn’t consider most aspects. Switzerland does it a bit better.
MS Switzerland acts more thoroughly and thoughtfully. I can confirm that from my experience in the USA and Canada. Canada is okay, but the USA, depending on the state, can be very chaotic. The implementation is sometimes terrible. People who made the rules there didn’t understand the subject as they should have if you want to scale it up seriously.
MT Switzerland, for example, does not allow overproduction of medicinal cannabis. Why? Because Canada had no limits; companies produced for stock, couldn’t sell the goods, and some decided to go to the black market. That’s why Switzerland said: We won’t allow that. Everything produced in Switzerland as medicinal cannabis must have a contract with a buyer who is EU GMP certified. This ensures that medicinal cannabis doesn’t end up on the black market.
MS Which would be a logical consequence of having no limit if everyone could produce freely. Another question about technology: Is there anything that will be used in the near future? New technologies or changes?
MT A lot is happening now with light spectrums, LEDs, and climate technology. We already see that many companies are moving from an intake-exhaust system to a closed system. A closed system must always be climate-controlled. Due to high demand, climate technology is constantly improving, which we very much welcome.
MS Are there already exciting products on the market? Perhaps not fully developed projects that aren’t yet ready for large industrial facilities but are on a good path? What are your plans for the next five years?
MT We want to be among the top ten in Germany. We have very good opportunities. TB Farming is not only active in the CBD flower trade or the medical flower trade; we also produce cuttings for the open market in Germany. And as you know, other European countries will follow. TB Farming is vertically integrated and can participate immediately in every new market that emerges because we have the know-how, long-term expertise, and have scaled up and down multiple times due to legal changes.
MS Flexibility? One of the most important characteristics in our industry—absolutely. And as you say, experience is needed to perform at such a high level consistently. You need people who have been involved for a long time and know what’s needed when.
MT Many cannabis companies made the following mistake: They were founded with passion, then sold to financial managers who fired the cannabis people, thinking no passion or deep knowledge is needed since it’s just gardening work. That’s where they were all wrong. It requires deep knowledge and the implementation of that knowledge.
MS And passion, as you said. Passion or enthusiasm for the plant is important. That’s something I’ve felt during every visit and every conversation. It’s not just an apricot tree or an apple tree.
MT No, definitely not.
MS A landscape gardener might be formally qualified on paper, but the result won’t be the same. How do you see the role of CBD in the market?
MT I personally stopped consuming THC flowers ten years ago because of my company, responsibility, and a lifestyle change. I was also the first to cultivate and sell CBD flowers on the Swiss market and found that fantastic. I’ve been consuming CBD flowers for ten years now, and I switched from one day to the next without missing anything. I didn’t have to change my friends, nor my ritual of rolling a joint. I didn’t miss the cannabis smell or taste. The advantage is that by giving up THC, my self-esteem increased, and I was able to perform much better at work, which was important when founding such a great company.
MS I can absolutely agree. You remain clear-headed and still enjoy the taste—no real sacrifice.
MT Yes, that’s my perspective. Don’t pin me down on it, but I think CBD flowers are the best substitution or THC replacement available. Because the only addiction cannabis can cause is really the ritual, and I mastered that change easily.
MS It achieves the goal perfectly. Let’s wrap up this very pleasant session. Thank you very much! A cooperation with Swiss Cannabis Experience? We see ourselves as a bridge between different cannabis cultures, cannabis enthusiasts, and those who might become enthusiasts. In the end, it’s about people and humanity, not about their individual characteristics. Education is key, meaning educating people and putting the cannabis plant in a different context. Might we offer tours or workshops?
MT Very gladly. We have actually been doing this for ten years already. Every day is basically an open house here. It would be nice if people register beforehand, though. Just so it’s clear, everyone in the industry who already likes cannabis is already convinced. We actually need to win over those who are against cannabis. And you won’t achieve that with a closed door. I enjoy giving tours. We’ve had all sorts of visitors, from politicians to hip-hop stars shooting music videos, to companies organizing employee visits to show them something different. Within five minutes, they’re speechless because they never imagined what the cannabis plant can do. You know this, but those who don’t like cannabis usually think it’s only about THC causing harm.
MS They think it’s a drug.
MT Just a drug, and that’s the end of it. But cannabis can do so much. You can build cars, houses, make building materials, textiles, paper, even toilet paper, plastic, batteries. Most people have only heard that THC is harmful.
MS I’m also impressed by the insulation materials. They’re becoming more interesting due to ecology and sustainability.
MT (Shows a product) This, for example, is bedding material for pets like hamsters or rabbits. They can rest on it. The snowboard behind me is also made from cannabis fiber. We have animal bedding, insulation mats for construction, and so on.
MS For larger animals as well.
MT This is one of the most exciting products—a composite board. Today’s fire protection requirements are strict, and cannabis with lime doesn’t burn. It’s not only a great insulator, it’s also fire-resistant and can be certified. The industry will know this in hopefully ten years. Unfortunately, architects don’t know it yet, developers don’t know it, so the market is still small. But it will come.
MS Unfortunately, building costs are still the main factor. I worked in that industry for a long time.
MT These are insulation mats, and you can have them thicker, up to 20 or 30 cm. The insulation helps people use less energy for heating in winter, and it’s recyclable. Tesla uses this same material for their car door interiors, as do BMW and Bugatti. They’ve known it longer but prefer not to talk about it.
MS We should actively advertise this.
MT Yes, we should show it clearly. Cannabis still has a bad aftertaste for many. That’s why I appreciate what you do—educating people. And I’m certainly the last person who would refuse a company tour if you come by with a group.
MS We are already looking forward to your charming and competent manner!
MT All the best.
MS Okay, thank you very much.
MT Thank you.
MS Have a nice Friday and a great weekend.
MT Thanks, same to you.
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